What do homeless influencers, fantasy boyfriends and around 280 bars crammed into six alleys have in common? They are all a part of Kabukicho, which is either a tourist trap or sleazy red-light district depending on who you ask.

Hosted by Shaun McKenna and produced by Dave Cortez.

On this episode:

Shaun McKenna: Articles | X | Instagram

Alex K.T. Martin: Articles | X

Moeka Iida: X

Yukana Inoue: Articles

Read more:

Get in touch: Send us feedback at [email protected]. Support the show by rating, reviewing and sharing the episode with a friend if you’ve enjoyed it. For a transcript of the show, visit japantimes.co.jp, and don’t forget to follow us on X!

Transcript note: Deep Dive is made to be listened to, and we recommend this transcript be used as an accompaniment to the episode. This transcript has been generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcription, and may contain errors. Please check its accuracy against the episode.

Shaun McKenna 00:09

Welcome to Deep Dive from The Japan Times. I'm your host, Shaun McKenna, and I'm sitting in a pub in a place called Golden Gai. The pub is called Hip, and this is a section of a neighborhood known as Kabukicho in Tokyo central Shinjuku Ward. With me is my producer, Dave Cortez and Japan Times staff writer Alex K.T. Martin.

Alex Martin 00:28

Hey, Shaun.

Dave Cortez 00:29

Hey there.

Shaun McKenna 0:30

So Alex, on today's show, we're going to be talking about some issues that have been making the news in this area over the past half year. But first, I want to talk to you a little bit about Golden Gai, which is located in the southeast corner of Kabukicho. This is an area that's kind of got a somewhat seedy reputation among Japanese people.

Alex Martin 00:49

Well, yeah, I guess, I guess the word "Kabukicho" would oftentimes conjure up the image of red-light districts, sex work, host clubs. But Golden Gai is different, though. Although the address is the same, it's a completely different world down here. Golden Gai itself is six narrow alleys housed with about 280 different drinking establishments, bars, some restaurants, snack bars, as they call them in Japanese, where, you know, female hostesses, greet you and it's, you know, it's been a popular destination for half a century or more. A lot of office workers, after they finish their day, they come over here. Artists come over here. You know, painters, rock ’n’ roll band folks, people like that. So it draws a really widespread clientele from all over the place and the bar. And we're right now Hip, h-i-p, as in, “hip hip hooray,” so I interviewed the owner of this place last December, called Kambayashi-san. He owns another bar downstairs, Skavla, which is quite foreigner friendly. They have their menu in English. This is another place he opened before that, called hip this, I think, sort of caters more towards the local sort of population, you know, people around us, like Tonomura-san sitting next to us. He says he actually moved his home near Golden Gai so he can drink here every night for fun.

Shaun McKenna 02:07

You can hear them in the background speaking.

Alex Martin 02:10

So I had this place in mind when you asked me to do a story about Golden Gai.

Shaun McKenna 02:14

Right, last year at the holidays, we did this piece titled “Christmas in Shinjuku Golden Gai,” and for that piece, you kind of went into the history of this area a little bit. Can you talk a little bit more about that history today?

Alex Martin 02:26

So, Golden Gai in Japanese means “golden street,” “gai” is “street.” This area sort of popped up, like a lot of other areas in Tokyo, like Ueno, for example, as a black market after World War II but eventually, the U.S. occupation forces abolished the black markets. And in the late-1950s, or up until the late 1950s, it was known as a place for drinks and prostitution actually, right? So a lot of these bars and these Nagaya tenements actually have three floors, and the top floor would be called the “chon-no-ma,” where sex workers would indulge in their work, right? That's not the case anymore. In 1958, there was a law that banned prostitution and, since then, it sort of transformed into a very artsy sort of neighborhood, which still is the case. But back in the day you would have like these big shot playwrights, novelists, painters, movie directors — you know...

Shaun McKenna 03:21

You’re talking about, like, the 1960s, 1960s-1970s, even till the ’80s, ’90s, before the bubble popped.

Alex Martin 03:26

I think when the asset price bubble popped, this whole area was quite desolated, as well as other sort of like, you know, commercial neighborhoods in Tokyo and elsewhere. But it's been revived since then. So I guess, sort of an important moment in the history of this place was back in the 1960s and ’70s. It sort of became more of an artist’s quarter. So a lot of writers hang out here and, in fact, in January 1976, I think, the news broke that a writer called Ryuzo Saki, he was a Golden Gai regular, his book called “Vengeance is Mine” — it's about ... it's a nonfiction book about a serial killer, If I'm not mistaken — it won the Naoki Prize. Maybe it wasn't nonfiction, it was based on a story about the serial killer. And it was seen basically as a victory for the whole neighborhood, which was sort of under the spotlight till then, but now it really sprung into the national media.

Shaun McKenna 04:16

Basically, OK, so let's set the scene. It's, like, now the 1980s and Japan is in the waning days of the bubble economy. You know, city pop artists rule the charts ... what's going on in Golden Gai at that time?

Alex Martin 04:27

So, like it was, you know, in other neighborhoods in Tokyo, land prices started really climbing really high. But a lot of the property owners here, they were able to hold on to their little slices of land, but there was, like, massive pressure for them to sell from loan sharks and all that. But then, so it became desolate. Over the early 1990s or so, a lot of the bars went closed. I talked to a couple of long-time regulars in this neighborhood who actually began coming here during that period. They said, like, it's nothing like what it is now. It was like, you know, half the alleys are dark, you know, people just couldn't afford, you know, operating in this neighborhood, the economy is really bad. But then towards the 1990s, it sort of sees, starts seeing, like a revival, especially during the 2000s. I think (due to) this retro appeal, you know, you don't see a place like this anywhere else in Japan. Basically it's like this, you know, you do see like, you know, simple alleys in Tokyo or other big cities, or even in the countryside that has this kind of feeling. But, you know, 280 bars concentrated in one single neighborhood — I don't think there's anything like it anywhere else in Japan. So it's sort of like, you know, became a very charismatic, popular neighborhood, especially for the artsy types as well as everybody else. And now, you know, I think it's basically regained its footing over the past five or six years. So tourists have been coming here in, like, more crazy numbers.

Shaun McKenna 05:43

I think, I think it's an important point to make, because, you know, you kind of get that even coming here today, you saw a lot of people like, kind of just taking pictures of empty alleyways and and you don't really get that in other parts of the city. And I could imagine, especially in the ’90s, there was this effort from Tokyo, to try to, like, distance themselves from the past. But this is a place that embraces it and even though, you know, you were saying in your article that since the 2000s a lot of stores have like, kind of changed hands, and they've like, opened up, it's almost like a second or maybe third generation of store owners, you know, it still kind of maintains this utter charm, you know, like, just, kind of like going through and you just see all these people, like, kind of standing at each bar door, thinking, “Can I go in here?” And then the bars are so tiny, there's what, like, I think six seats in this place? So, like, in addition to having a low ceiling, it's like six seats, and we are right up against the bar. So I think that this is what's really interesting. Golden Gai has this charm, yet Kabukicho has this kind of more like a sleazier reputation, right? So it's almost like you're in kind of a little bit of an island here. Tell us a little bit more about Kabukicho.

Alex Martin 06:56

Right. So, I mean, I might have mentioned before, but the term, or the address, Kabukicho, it sort of conjures up a reputation of being sort of a sketchy area. So the neighborhood basically has everything you want. You got cinemas, you got, you know, old-school game centers, if you finish that kind of stuff. You got hostess bars and host clubs, and then Shinjuku Ni-chome, that's the LGBTQ neighborhood, that's really, you know, right next door. So, you know, there's, you know, the famous photographer, Daido Moriyama-san, he once said, you know, he said that “Shinjuku is like a stadium of desire,” where people from all walks of life gather, so you basically can find everything you want here. And that's why that's the really strong appeal that the place has — although some people say it's becoming gentrified, especially the station-front area, so we'll see how that evolves in the decades to come. But so far, Golden Gai’s thriving. And as you can see, the night has just begun.

Shaun McKenna 07:50

Well on today's episode, we're going to talk to some of those people that kind of make up this “stadium of desire.” So we'll be right back after a quick break

Moeka Iida is a staff writer for The Economist magazine. In May, she wrote a story titled “The controversial cult of the host club in Japan.” Moika, thanks for coming on Deep Dive.

Moeka Iida 08:17

Thanks so much for having me. Shaun, I'm really excited to talk about the story.

Shaun McKenna 08:22

Me too. You know, for those who don't know what exactly is a host club?

Moeka Iida 08:26

So host clubs are where hosts work, and hosts are male entertainers who serve female clients, and they're part of Japan's nighttime entertainment industry, and they exist in many parts of the country, but they're concentrated in Kabukicho or Tokyo's most famous red-light district.

Shaun McKenna 08:43

And that's a neighborhood that's close to Shinjuku station.

Moeka Iida 08:47

Yes, exactly. And basically, they're the opposite of the more popular kabakura or “hostess clubs.” So basically, you have these young men who are usually attractive. They're either good-looking or they're good at talking, and you sit down with them and have a drink, and you, they also flirt with you, and the point for them is to offer psychological intimacy, so ... sex could happen between clients and the host, similar to how kabakura works. So you can exchange contacts with them. You're free to meet them outside of the bars, but sex is officially not part of the bargain.

Shaun McKenna 09:22

Right, OK. When did this kind of culture begin appearing in Japan?

Moeka Iida 09:26

Host clubs became well-known in more recent years, say, around the 2000s but they have a pretty long history. So the first host club opened in the mid-1960s and I visited Ai Honten, which is the oldest host club that's still around. It opened in 1971, and I went there, and I interviewed Hojo Yuichi, who is the owner of the club, and he's been in the industry for 35 years. So he was very helpful for me to understand how the industry has transformed. And he told me that, in the early days, host clubs were mostly for rich women and usually married women or widows, and they came to enjoy ballroom dancing. So Ai Honten has a dance hall that, people don't really use it these days, And he also mentioned that the early days hosts usually called themselves male geishas, so they often saw themselves as part of this lineage of Japanese traditional culture. And he was telling me how it's not just the host clubs, but a lot of the businesses in the so called mizushobai, or Japan's nighttime hospitality industry, they use a lot of terminology that was used in the Edo Period, Yoshiwara.

Shaun McKenna 10:42

So that's kind of like the red-light district in the Edo Period.

Moeka Iida 10:49

In the Edo Period of the 1800s or when you had geishas and oidan, sure. So even today, kyabajo and hosts, when they don't have enough customers, when they have a bad day for business, they use the term “ocha-piki” or making tea. Because when you don't have enough customers, they kill time by making tea. And that was a term that geishas used in the Yoshiwara. So they keep using these kinds of, there is this kind of tradition that's been passed on.

Shaun McKenna 11:17

How did Hojo-san get into it?

Moeka Iida 11:19

So back in the day, host clubs were seen as a very fringe, sleazy business. It was not in the mainstream. So Hojo-san, who entered the industry over 30 years ago, he told me that he joined a host club just because he was desperate for money. He dropped out of school, he was a bit of a rebel, he didn't have any career options, and then someone invited him to work at a host club. So he did it just because he needed money, but he was very reluctant to join the business because he thought it might be dangerous, it's kind of sleazy and shady, and he said that was how a lot of people joined the industry back in the day, but today, host clubs are totally different.

Shaun McKenna 11:58

OK, so what does the modern host club look like?

Moeka Iida 12:01

A lot of hosts have acquired celebrity status, they have a big social media following. You started seeing famous hosts on TV shows from around the 2000s and if you walk around Kabukicho today, you see all these billboards showing top-earning hosts, yeah. And you might have seen this billboard that says “shokugo ikemen”: “My job is to be handsome.” And that's to promote host clubs, so they're seen as celebrities. And also, I feel like the popularity of hosts recently has been helped by this oshikatsu culture. So “oshikatsu” has become a buzzword in Japan. It's very trendy. It's where mainly women, young women, they have a favorite J-pop idol or a K-pop idol or celebrity they like. I guess the English word for oshikatsu is “stanning,” like stanning for a favorite person. So I met a lot of women who said they used to spend a lot of money on concerts for J-pop idols or K-pop idols, but then they switch to host clubs because idols are someone you see on a stage, whereas hosts are close and you can access them more intimately.

Shaun McKenna 13:14

Yeah. And what kind of men become hosts nowadays?

Moeka Iida 13:17

I would say just ordinary men. So there's a host I quote in my story, called Hiragi Saren. He works at a small host club, but he's from Aomori Prefecture, so, a very rural area, and he said, just like a lot of girls in Japan want to become idols, he wanted to enter “a world that's glamorous,” like he wanted to be a host and make his name and become famous. And a lot of people I spoke to, they also talk about how they have other aspirations, like they want to start a business, and they're doing it to save enough money. And I also did meet some men who said they wanted to become a J-pop or K-pop idol, and they even went through training to become a K-pop idol, but they couldn't make their way because it's too competitive. So they've switched to host clubs instead, and they become, in a way, mini celebrities. And Hojo-san was actually saying something like, there's this alliance between the women who like idols, but they want to interact with a handsome guy on a more intimate level, like an idol is someone is on a stage, but if you go to host club, you can drink with them and talk to them and even go on dates with them. And then there's the men who wanted to become an idol, but couldn't quite make it. And then they become mini celebrities and host clubs. So there's kind of an alliance between those two parties.

Shaun McKenna 14:32

Right, OK. So for your story, you went to one of these clubs. I haven't been to a host club myself, but what was it like, the experience of going to a host club?

Moeka Iida 14:42

Well, I was a bit nervous because I thought it might be a bit shady, or I might get ripped off, or maybe I like it too much, and I get addicted, or something.

Shaun McKenna 14:49

The risks of the business.

Moeka Iida 14:54

Yes, but I followed a friend who has been to a host club before, and I was a bit nervous, but we just walked around. Kabukicho and entered a building, and I was a bit like, “Oh, is it OK if I step in? Like, am I gonna get into trouble?” But, I mean, inside, it was a bit like a nightclub, like, it's a bit, it's pretty dark, and the decoration, I would say, is quite kitsch. Like, it's almost bordering on tacky, like, you have all these, like chandeliers and these, like velvet, very luxurious sofas...

Shaun McKenna 15:21

Kind of bubble-era...

Moeka Iida 15:22

Exactly, exactly, very shiny diamonds and so on. And again, I was worried about getting ripped off, but I came to learn that they have this system called “shokai,” so a first-timer system, so the first time you go to a host club, it's actually very cheap. You only pay around ¥1,000 to ¥3,000 again, and the idea is to get, like, a taste of who works there. Yeah, so it's ¥1,000 to ¥3,000, it's all-you-can-drink, so actually, it's a bit it's a really nice way to just hang out with friends and get a drink. And then all the different hosts in the club come to your table in turns, and they talk about five to 10 minutes, and then they leave, and they also give you their meishi, and sometimes it has a QR code for their Line account, or they ask you if you can exchange Lines with them. So it was kind of funny how, like, I'm constantly surrounded by several men, and they keep giving you their meishi, and by the end of the visit, I have like, 20 meishi or 30 meishi on my table, and it's like a Pokemon card deck or something!

Shaun McKenna 16:22

Just for people who don't know, a meishi is like a business card in Japan, right? So on the first time you meet someone, especially in a formal situation, you would kind of present it and, yeah, come to know the person by the meishi. What kind of things did these guys talk to you about?

Moeka Iida 16:39

They just make small talk. I mean, honestly, they ask really benign questions like, “Oh, what do you like to drink?” “How often do you come to Kabukicho” and something interesting about host clubs is they don't ask questions like, “How old are you?” or, “What do you do for a living?” Because the idea is to create this fantasy world. A lot of the hosts I spoke to said, basically a host club is supposed to be like Disneyland. You know, Disneyland's very popular among Japanese women. It's about creating this fantasy world and an escape from your boring everyday life. So they basically just flatter you, they don't ask questions that remind you of your daily life. And their job is to make you feel like a princess, like they make you feel like a princess. You're needed, you're desired, you're beautiful, you're hot, and so on. And actually, the host literally do call the clients a princess, like “hime.”

Shaun McKenna 17:31

Right. OK, now I'm going to put you on the spot here. But were there any guys that you thought, you know, were kind of like clear winners at the end of the night? For you?

Moeka Iida 17:39

Honestly, you know, I had pretty high expectations. I thought they're going to be, like, really good-looking and super seductive and, like, great at talking. And honestly, I was surprised how a lot of these men seem like just ordinary guys. It's quite telling about how a woman pays money to access just ordinary intimacy. It was quite interesting. But, you know, but sometimes you know, when you talk to them and they keep giving you compliments, and they say things like, “Oh, you're so pretty,” like, “You're my type,” and I'm like, you're just trying to flatter me. But then a part of me is like, oh, maybe they actually mean it. Maybe they actually have a crush on me.

Shaun McKenna 18:14

Yeah, it's interesting, because you have to kind of like, allow yourself to kind of be seduced by the fantasy, right? Basically, in order for it to work.

Moeka Iida 18:24

Yeah, exactly, right.

Shaun McKenna 18:25

You know, I actually had a friend who went to a host club, maybe like 20 years ago, and she said they peeled her grapes for her. Did you see anything like that?

Moeka Iida 18:33

That is so bizarre, I have not seen anything like that. But, you know, I feel like the old days host clubs were a bit more hard core, in a sense. So Hojo-san, who I spoke to, the guy who's been in the industry for three decades, he said women, back in the day, they like, partied harder, and they like to drink a lot, and they were also a bit more aggressive. So he said, one time, this woman poured her drinks into her shoe, her high heels, and made him drink from it.

Shaun McKenna 18:56

Oh, wow. OK, yeah, that is hard core. What is, what is the allure of a host club for Japanese women?

Moeka Iida 19:02

You know, I think women go to host clubs for very different reasons. Some women go just because it's fun, but I think it boils down to the fact that a lot of people are lonely. So there are a lot of women who go to host clubs on a very regular basis and you can see the hosts are a big part of their lives, almost like pseudo-boyfriends. Something I found interesting is if you look at the counterpart of a host club, so the kabakura or the hostess clubs — the male clients are free to pick different women each time they visit. But in a host club, it works very differently. They have a system called “eikyu shimei-sei,” like “permanent appointment.” So you pick one man, and you have to stick to that person. You have to become loyal to that person and work on your relationship with that person. And a lot of the women I spoke to, they've been seeing their host for very long periods, like even years, and they even go on dates together. They meet frequently outside of the bars and, they've even traveled together, and they also have all kinds of special memories, like the hosts keep track of anniversaries, like the first time they met, the first time she came to this bar, the first time they went traveling together, or they might even have matching items and so on. Like a boyfriend and girlfriend.

Shaun McKenna 20:18

When you say they go traveling together, so are the women paying for the trips?

Moeka Iida 20:23

That's what I thought. But actually, in those cases, the host pays. It's, in a sense, emulating an ordinary romantic relationship. If you're meeting inside the bar, the woman pays as a client, but when you meet outside, it's like hanging out with your boyfriend. The boy pays. And I think the rise of host clubs coincides with some demographic shifts as well. So in Japan, singledom is on the rise. So if you look at marriage statistics, more than 60% of Japanese women in their late 20s are unmarried today, and that's double the rate in the mid-1980s and there was also a really surprising survey recently that showed a third of unmarried Japanese people in their 20s to 40s have never dated in their lives, right? That was really surprising for me, but I guess so. There's a lot of single people these days, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there's no demand for companionship. There is still that need for romantic intimacy, and there is a business that is able to offer that.

Shaun McKenna 21:28

Now, this whole kind of, like host club system isn't without its faults, right? So you kind of talk in your article about problems like mounting debts, and you know, like, how women try to, like, pay for their host addictions — if we can call it addictions, it sounds kind of like it. And then it's gotten to the point where even the government is kind of intervening.

Moeka Iida 21:52

Exactly. I can see a lot of women for them, it has become a kind of addiction. It has become an unhealthy habit. And when I hear about their interactions with hosts, it almost seems like an abusive relationship. So one woman was talking about how her host would ask if she would like to open a bottle of Champagne, which is really expensive, and if she says no, he starts acting very cold, and he starts ignoring her, and starts fiddling with his phone so she would open that bottle of Champagne because she wants to get his attention. She doesn't want him to get sad. And something interesting about host clubs, when you go in, it's just one room and all the tables are in the same room. So as a customer, I can see all the other tables and all the other women sitting there. And sometimes your host, he has to leave and go talk to the other customers, and you can see them talking and sit next to each other and flirting, and I heard that is intentional. It's a way to incite jealousy. So women start ordering more drinks or open bottles of Champagne so they want their host to come back to their table.

Shaun McKenna 22:52

Right, there is a lot of psychology going on inside these host clubs.

Moeka Iida 22:58

But jokes aside, there is a very serious issue of young women falling into debt and spending way more money than they can afford. And a way these young women can earn money is sex work, and they fall into working for prostitution. And there's also been reports about women going abroad to do sex work. They use the word dekasegi, because if they go abroad, it's easier to earn money, and because of the weak yen, it's more lucrative to go abroad. And there's even been reports about how the host clubs might be brokering this prostitution as well. So host clubs have come under a lot of criticism recently, both by the media and by politicians. And I spoke to Ayaka Shiomura, who's a young female politician for the Constitutional Democratic Party, the liberal opposition to the LDP, and she's been leading discussions about host clubs in Parliament. And I think the reason why they started paying attention to this has to do with Okubo Park. So Okubo Park is a park in Kabukicho. It's very close to the Toyoko Square, but it's become a popular pickup spot for prostitution. So if you go there, there's a lot of young women standing there, and they're waiting for someone to pick them up and sell sex. And there was a survey recently that showed 40% of the women who were arrested for selling sex around Okubo Park, they were doing it to go to host clubs. They weren't doing it because they're desperate for money. They were going, they were doing it to go to host clubs. And I find that really surprising as well. Yeah, that has, in a sense, created a moral panic, OK, but just to be clear, actually, um, this has been a tradition in Kabukicho for a very long time, even before legislators and the media started talking about it. So there has been a long tradition in Kabukicho where you have female sex workers or sex adjacent workers like kabajo and hostesses. They work all day. They deal with these clients, who are usually disgusting old men and then they, after work, they go and see their favorite host, who's a pretty, young boy, and then they just vent out all their frustration. They basically spend all their money

Shaun McKenna 25:08

Like a therapist.

Moeka Iida 25:09

Exactly. It's like therapy. And there's actually a documentary. It's an old documentary called “The Great Happiness Space” by Jake Clennell, and it's a documentary about a host club in Osaka in the 2000s but it explores that idea, explores this idea of women in the sex industry going to host clubs to vent out their frustrations.

Shaun McKenna 25:30

It's interesting because, you know, Kabukicho, I think in recent years, has tried to clean up its image. Like, you now get there's a big cinema, there a large game center, there's like that hotel with the Godzilla attached to it. So they kind of are trying to make it more tourist-friendly. But like, for people who live here, there is still that kind of like reputation that it has that associates it with, kind of like, I don't know, the shadier side of like, Japanese nightlife.

Moeka Iida 26:02

Exactly, the area has gone through a lot of transformation. So there's also the time during when Ishihara Shintaro was governor of Tokyo, he launched this initiative called kabukijo kasaksen, or a Kabukicho Cleansing Initiative, or something like that. And he tried to make the place a lot safer. And so the place has changed a lot.

Shaun McKenna 26:22

Yeah, so is the government making progress with legislation, or is it just kind of in discussion stages?

Moeka Iida 26:28

At the moment, I think it's still in the discussion stages. I don't feel like there's been much progress in terms of introducing legislation, but Shiomura-san was talking about how they're trying to handle manipulative business tactics in the host business by existing legislation. So there are laws pertaining to dating scams, or romance scams, as they call it. But it seems like the host club industry is trying to preempt this kind of official legislation by introducing self-governing rules.

Shaun McKenna 26:56

OK? They're trying to kind of regulate themselves before the government steps in.

Moeka Iida 27:01

Exactly, right. So a very prevalent practice in the host club industry is called odekakin, but it's basically like a pay-later system, so they keep tabs for customers, and what happens with that is people come and they spend way more money than they can afford, and then they fall into debt. So from April, supposedly, the host clubs have stopped practicing that. But I'm not really sure how much that has been enforced on the ground, and how effective these rules have been, but it seems like these kinds of discussions have brought a really big shift in the mindset in the industry. So when I talk to host club workers, they say they're a lot more careful in terms of how they operate as a business.

Shaun McKenna 27:41

Another thing I found interesting about your piece was that you kind of mentioned this broader implication for intimacy in Japan.

Moeka Iida 27:50

Yes, exactly. So it's not just host clubs. We talked about the kabakura and the hostesses, but there's other kinds of businesses that offer intimacy in Japan, like the cuddle cafes, for instance. And on one hand, I find this culture very interesting. I think it's a unique part of Japanese culture. It's just really fascinating. But on the other hand, maybe there is something a bit worrying about how there's so many people in this country who need to pay money to access this very ordinary, normal kind of intimacy, which people should be able to access in their everyday lives. And I was talking to Thomas Baudinette, who's an anthropologist focused on Japanese popular culture, and he was raising the alarm about how intimacy in Japan seems to be increasingly commoditized. So a lot of people are in this dilemma, in this catch 22 where you want to keep seeing your host, you want to keep seeing the person you like, but in order to do that, you have to pay more and more money. And I feel like maybe there's a link with broader social issues in Japan, like the high suicide rate, like loneliness is seen as a very big issue. It almost seems like people are living in their own little cells, and they're just struggling to get by. They work really hard, they study really hard. They don't really have the time or the capacity to build meaningful relationships outside of these tiny little cells. And there is a business that has commoditized that intimacy and can offer it to you as long as you pay money, and people will pay money to access that right?

Shaun McKenna 29:18

Well, Moeka, it's a very interesting story. And just to remind the listeners, it was for the Economist magazine. The title was “The controversial cult of the host club in Japan.” Thanks very much for coming on Deep Dive.

Moeka Iida 29:31

This was so fun. Thank you so much for having me on.

Shaun McKenna 29:42

On top of the tourist packed alleys of Golden Gai and the host clubs, Kabukicho has been in the news recently for another issue, the so- called Toyoko Kids. My colleague Yukana Inoue wrote about this hard-to-define group in an article titled “Toyoko Kids: The lonely street children of Tokyo.” Hi Yukana, what? Come back to Deep Dive. You're talking to us from Osaka, yeah?

Yukana Inoue 30:03

Yeah, hi. Thank you so much for having me again. And yeah, I'm in Osaka right now.

Shaun McKenna 30:08

Well, thanks for making time. Let me ask you about this Toyoko Kids phenomenon you've written about. First of all, who are the Toyoko Kids?

Yukana Inoue 30:16

So the Toyoko Kids have been in the news for the past several years. They're called Toyoko Kids because they're based “next to,” which is “yoko” in Japanese, to the Shinjuku Toho Building, which “to” is short for. So to-yoko is literally “next to” the Shinjuku “Toho” Building. But I've heard that the kids themselves don't actually like being called Toyoko Kids. They call themselves “kaiwai-min,” which literally translates to “people in the community.” They're sometimes described as street children of Tokyo, but they're a mix of those who have permanently run away from home, but also those who kind of commute to Kabukicho and stay there for periods of time. But they are generally children or young adults in their teens to their early 20s, and they're all kind of marginalized in one way or another, and kind of formed a unique young youth subculture in the area. They are kids who fall into drug use and general delinquency, kids who've kind of slipped through the cracks of society, either because of a poor home life, bad grades, behavioral issues, but nonetheless, they wind up living on the streets of Kabukicho.

Shaun McKenna 31:22

Why Kabukicho? Why not Shibuya or Harajuku?

Yukana Inoue 31:26

So next to the Toho building, there's this big square, and it's a prime location for kids to hang out in. And there are not that many spaces in congested cities like Shibuya or Ginza that allows for this kind of gathering. The fact that Kabukicho has a very robust sex and entertainment industry that's regarded as the red-light district of Tokyo also plays a part in it. Since many of the kids partake in the industry in one way or another. Many of the girls, especially, are also lured to the area due to host clubs and underground idols, which also plays a factor. With that said, other places also have similar groups, like the “Guri-shita Kids” near the Glico sign in Osaka, as well as “Kego Kids” who are located in Kego Park in Fukouka. Also Kabukicho as an area has a long history of homelessness, where in the past, it used to be called Komageki-mae, and in the ’90s, even children as young as 4 or 5 years old would hang out there alone at night while their moms went to work in the nightlife establishments.

Shaun McKenna 32:29

Yeah, I seem to recall that area being like a haven for homeless youth for a while, actually.

Yukana Inoue 32:34

Yeah. So it's not a new thing by any means. Um, youth homelessness, and just homelessness generally in the area, has been around for a while, but regarding that particular age group, it was made worse by the pandemic, because a lot of the kids had harsh home lives, and it was kind of exacerbated during the lockdown. For Toyoko Kids, there's also a social media element to it, where the Toyoko Kids often post on TikTok or other social medias that somewhat romanticizes their lives on the street, and some kids even have titles like “God” or “Empress,” depending on the popularity and influence they have with the area, which is sometimes connected to their clout that they have on social media. And these social media posts also play a big role, because these posts are seen by young people in other parts of Japan, they will get in touch with the Toyoko Kids through means like DMs and such, and then they'll run away and relocate to Kabukicho and come join the community. And they also pop up on a lot of tourists’ social media as well. It might be them chugging like Strong Zero, like very strong alcoholic drinks with these young people, and so they have also become kind of a tourist attraction themselves.

Shaun McKenna 33:46

Right, so the social media aspect is kind of turning these kids into mini celebrities, in a way,

Yukana Inoue 33:52

Yeah, I would say. So they definitely have a presence within the Tokyo community that tourists and domestic people alike are well aware of their existence.

Shaun McKenna 34:02

Right. There seems to be, like, a big like trend element to this. Is it kind of, I don't mean to, like belittle it, but like youth homelessness as a trend?

Yukana Inoue 34:10

I would say there is definitely an aspect of it. And like I said before, not all of the kids are actually homeless. They are sometimes just short-term runaways. So it is, in a way, kind of like a trend. It is a youth subculture that they have created in the area within the past several years. And so them being out in Kabukicho isn't really connected to the typical cause of homelessness. It's just their way to escape reality and find a new sense of community in this part of Tokyo. But regardless of whether they're homeless kids or just short term runaways, The problem arises when they get caught up in crime, drugs or other trouble in the area, many need to rely on things like street prostitution in order to support themselves once they've run away. So for the story, I spoke to Masanori Amano, who is the head of this organization called Nippon Kakekomidera, and it's a volunteer organization in the Kabukicho area that offers support to Toyoko Kids. And he was telling me that he encountered a girl as young as 10 who was involved in street prostitution at Kabukicho. And I also heard that, on average, many of the girls make around ¥1 million to ¥2 million a month from street prostitution, which is kind of crazy.

Shaun McKenna 35:25

Wow, yeah, that's really awful. The youth element, that seems really serious, and these stories must have alerted the authorities in some way. ... Actually, on that, can the police not do a sweep or something to get minors off the street?

Yukana Inoue 35:38

So actually, unless they're caught breaking the law like drugs or underage drinking or prostitution, the police can't really do much about it. If runaways aren't reported missing by their parents, they can't be taken off the streets just for being there. This is why the group of kids just standing around in Kabukicho continues to persist. There is a curfew for minors in Japan from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m. but it has to be enforced by the parents, and so the parents are the ones penalized for it if it's not followed. And so the lack of parenting in this situation makes enforcing the curfew sort of a gray area for the police. That said the police have one legal tool called “hodou,” or protective custody, where they can detain minors for breaking curfew. And in fact, 21 minors were quote, unquote, “arrested” just this past Tuesday in Kabukicho under this protective custody.

Shaun McKenna 36:30

I see. So you mentioned the group, Nippon Kakekomidera, supporting these kids. What does that support look like? What do they do?

Yukana Inoue 36:37

So the organization is based in Kabukicho, and they offer a helping hand to anyone in the area, including the Toyoko Kids. As part of it, they hold this event called Kabukicho Mirai Cafe every Saturday where they provide hot food like omurice or curry or anything like that, every Saturday to anyone who shows up. They've been doing it since August of 2022 and I heard that on average, they get around 30 to 50 people every Saturday. When I went last January, I saw quite a lot of them cycle in and out as well. So through these like weekly events, the staff tries to engage with the children so that they feel more comfortable coming into the organization's office any other day to talk about their problems. And at this organization, the staff kind of acts like an older sibling to the children, and instead of, like, scolding them, they lended a helping, they lend an ear, and they wait for the young people to realize on their own that they're not in a good place. Since a lot of the time, the children just need someone to talk to. And once they begin opening up, they offer guidance to support them in any ways that they can. Like, for example, I heard a story from Amano about a girl who was addicted to drugs, and she expressed an interest to him that she wanted to play the piano, but she never had the chance to do so growing up. And so Amano promised her that he would buy a piano for the office, and she could come into play, as long as she gave up drugs, and she did, and because she was an influential figure within the community, a lot of the younger girls looked up to her also followed her steps and quit drugs, which kind of sounds like a fairy tale story. Amano was also telling me that there were some kids coming to him, saying that they wanted to go to college, but they were scared that it was too late for them, to which he helped by inviting several students from Tokyo University to come volunteer and tutor them, right? So yeah, this is just in a couple examples of the sort of thing that the organization does.

Shaun McKenna 38:36

So how's Amano's organization doing now?

Yukana Inoue 38:39

Yeah, so they're continuing, and they have also joined onto a project by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government that was set up to provide additional sources and support to the Toyoko Kids. They set up a two-week counseling pop up in January in the Kabukicho area, which offered Wi-Fi chargers, snacks and counseling to those who needed it, and it became a permanent fixture starting in April.

Shaun McKenna 39:04

OK, that's good. Well, we talked earlier about this idea of the Toyoko Kids being a trend. And again, that's not to make light of the situation, but trends usually come to an end, right? So could this problem perhaps solve itself?

Yukana Inoue 39:18

Yeah. I mean, there are signs that it is kind of being resolved, and the community appears to be getting smaller compared to how big it was at the peak of it, and there has been more efforts, like I mentioned, by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government and organizations like Nippon Kakekomidera around the country that has helped, and because of the more strict crackdowns by The police, it has discouraged the kids from staying there. But at the same time, the important thing here is that while the Toyoko Kids are somewhat of a trend and partly a social media phenomenon, actual youth homelessness as well as the problems in the homes that prompt these kids to run away in the first place, these are issues that need constant attention, and more needs to be done to help that they're not going to go away anytime soon. So those are the issues that need to be more focused on.

Shaun McKenna 40:08

Well, Yukana, thanks for joining us on Deep Dive.

Yukana Inoue 40:11

Thank you, thank you for having me again.

Shaun McKenna 40:21

So we're back at Golden Gai, my thanks to Alex and Yukana and Moeka and, of course, the staff at Hip for kind of hosting us in this portion of the show. We here at Deep Dive had gone bi-weekly for a bit, and have some sad news, our producer, Dave Cortez, is going to be moving on to a new job, Dave, would you like to say something?

Dave Cortez 40:46

Yeah, I would. I'm definitely sad to be going. I have to say I had a great time making this podcast with you, Shaun, and with you, obviously, Alex, week after week, I got the chance to see Japan a lot and to bring people stories that were really interesting. And I'm happy that you guys tuned in to listen to what we made.

Shaun McKenna 41:00

Well, we're gonna miss you, Dave, and that also means that we will be going on a bit of a break while we hunt for a new engineer and producer. So, on that note, our music that you've been hearing on the show has been by LLLL and Oscar Boyd. I've been Shaun McKenna, and we've got a couple drinks ... to Dave, a much deserved podtsukare! Have a good summer, everyone.